But you are right, at G/J/M/Z transfer would be best! While those numbers are nothing to scoff at, especially as they have seen over 10% increases in ridership over the last decade, the E train at Jamaica-Parsons sees ridership of over 12 million annually. Abandoned Mineral . The ascending tunnel grade would be about 1.4% and the descending 3.3%, both reasonable. THE IRT IS 3/4 THE SIZE OF THE IND/BMT FOR A REASON. Abandoned 9th Avenue Subway Station. But thats not necessarily for the bad. Say we got together and bought the local NBA franchise. For example, why build a Lafayette Av branch off of Crosstown when instead a cheap connection between the (G)/(J)/(M) could be built at Broadway. The Flushing Line viaduct cleans up real nice The 2 track Worth St Line would require a 3.15 mile tunnel from Tribeca to Williamsburg. Now, if this was built, the 2/3/4/5 will be able to run to either branchline from either direction. Meaning if the Livonia Yards are overcrowded and a train-related incident happens at Franklin;blocking off service to Manhattan, trains can run between New Lots and Flatbush and/or Kings Plaza and Flatbush. Building it to Water St requires all new infrastructure there and a new East River tunnel (which isnt needed) and with Nassau St located closer to the heart of the Financial District and with better transfer options (that Water St would not be able to provide) it seems obvious that its a better routing. Utica Avenue is served by the New York City Subway 's IRT Eastern Parkway Line ( 3 and 4 trains) at the Crown Heights-Utica Avenue station at Eastern Parkway [1] and by the IND Fulton Street Line ( A and C trains) at the Utica Avenue station on Fulton Street. I chose to believe that rerouting the B/D to Williamsburg opens up far more possibilities. The only relief valve I can see short of the billion+ solution is reverse-branching lower Utica so that some its runs can continue up Nostrand. It wont really be providing new services, since youre just substituting services that already exist. (Plans for a Utica Ave. subway in 1969 involved extending the IRT instead of the IND.) Many transit activists I talk to refuse any plan which would take a single building but this is unrealistic in any city. They will have elevators or ramps for handicapped access. Part of why I wanted to write this post was to point out the downsides to going with an IND style Utica Ave over IRT. Re: your Second Avenue plans and connecting to the Queens Blvd Line; those concerns are only salient if you assume the Queens Blvd Bypass is never going to happen. I like the basic idea. Subway prematurely. 7. You could replace Lafayette Ave with a new station that joins the fray and then shares track with the R. All tunnels built after the original subway were built to B Division standards. [16], The IRT Eastern Parkway Line was built as part of Route 12 from 1915 to 1918. much cheaper and fits the mtas little goes a long way attitude. While there are arguments to be made for extending the Nostrand Ave Line south I would argue that with the addition of Utica Ave that demand would be reduced as riders coming from the east or southeast would take Utica over a bus to Nostrand. You are correct that the larger option would require shutting down service which is one reason Im in favor of the smaller option. It would reduce the need for bus transfers. In IND reports it was proposed to have the line remain as a subway until Ave J where it would ascend to the surface and run elevated, originally to Sheepshead Bay, then later a more simplified route down Flatbush Ave to Floyd Bennett Field. But what this plan does is allow for a new and better city to grow around the line rather than be divided by it. As for late nights and weekends why not just extend the 6? Before the renovation of this station in 1995, it was possible to see the unfinished station from the mezzanine. If we build to IND station size (while making easily-removable platforms extensions that allow the platforms to be disabled accessible to IRT trains) wouldnt that allow the subway to easily expand capacity once they find the money to make an IND connection or just convert the IRT to the IND gauge? The biggest issue I have with you routings is that it ignores the changes that need to happen at Rogers Junction. Its got limitations now, sure. The 8th Ave Subway was designed to replace the 9th Ave El, the 6th Ave and 2nd Ave Subways to replace elevateds running above their avenues. An article today about from Second Avenue Sagas about the 7 line extension station at Hudson Yards, awaiting passengers as the rest of the mega development is completed, reminded us of these.. Most of the subway system in New York City no longer has that feel . If that happens, either the A or C would have to go that way. This staircase leads up to a small mezzanine where there is a token booth and turnstiles. With it both 2/3 trains would only go to Brooklyn College while 5 trains would serve the local stations, Nostrand Ave, Kingston Ave, and Utica Ave before turning south to Kings Plaza, while 4 trains would stay express to Utica Ave and take over service to New Lots. In 2015 Mayor Bill de Blasio even proposed bringing the line back and supposedly the MTA has been studying the plan since. Its smarter to do a IRT Utica line because the demand for a Utica Av Line is not in Bed-Stuy and Williamsburg, but in East Flatbush, Flatlands, and Mill Basin. Late nights a shuttle will run from Franklin Av to New Lots Av. Besides, with Utica so far out it would be much better service to have express trains rather than a longer local train. The Manhattan plans remained the same, but the line east from South 4th Street would continue on only to Marine Park via Utica Ave. Double-deck single tracks. In the 1929 plan, one set of tracks would have led down Stuyvesant Ave., crossing the IND Fulton St. Line at Utica Ave. where another shell station and some unused mezzanines live and continuing down Utica Ave. and to Marine Park. Well then what are we waiting for? Av D/Utica Av is 480 yards away, 6 min walk. Doesnt matter. There were blocked stairways up from the platform level to the upper level that were removed during the station's renovation. On the opposite side, from Eastern Parkway to Empire Blvd, the slope descends 66 feet. Merchant groups arent going to sue you for driving their business away. The Utica provisions at Fulton are on the upper level and cross perpendicular to the lower platforms. Off-road (Chicago style). Even today Utica makes too much sense. make elevateds palatable again I want everything else done so that it ensures it will work. Also, Utica Av(or Malcolm X Blvd because a BMT Line is past Fulton St)becomes smaller past Fulton St, so instead of one lane being ripped up, a whole street would be ripped up, causing the B46 to be detoured north of Fulton St. An elevated line would be a bad idea too, because north of Fulton St is just 2-story Pre-War homes, and the rooftops are around the same height as the tracks. Might fit in with narrow streets with tall buildings? This station's mezzanine and exterior can be seen in various points of 6ix9ines music video for the song "Kooda". I agree using Worth has disadvantages. Less light-blocking like 5 but vertical. As per your proposal. BBGUN63. F,L,M all times except late nights, 1,2. Kings Plaza isnt downtown Flushing so you arent going to have that demand. Crown HeightsUtica Avenue station was constructed as part of the Eastern Parkway Line. Drawing fantasy lines on paper is far more fun when you have unlimited possibilities but if we are planning out a project today there are some real world considerations that come first. One of the main reasons that the City wanted to build the IND was to replace the existing elevated lines which were old, slow, and unpopular as they cast streets in shadow and soot. I outlined my plans for 2nd Ave in a previous post but one thing I only mentioned in passion was how Phase 4 could be achieved cheaper if it was connected to Nassau St after Chatham Sq (as in, 2nd Ave would not connect to Centre St by Bowery by to Nassau St by Chambers). N,R all times except late nights, W weekdays only, 5 all times except late nights,6. Same with Crown Heights-Utica Av. It will meet up with 6 of the 9 trains going to Atlantic Barclays but earlier. On the Utica Ave. subway, a half-baked idea with no champion written by Benjamin Kabak February 28, 2017 The Utica Ave. subway extension has once again disappeared into the ether of New York City politics. Gov. By the early 1920s, its population had swelled to more than 10,000. Mayor Bill de Blasio has asked the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to examine bringing No. For a first phase, I could see going only as far as Clarendon Road and the following trackage. [7] The first section opened on January 9, 1908, extending the subway from Bowling Green to Borough Hall. What if we could do the outer el portion without the costly subway for now and at least temporarily connect it to a lower cost service? from those two subway stations The application was approved, and the IRT extension opened on May 1, 1908. There is also sporadic 2 and 5 service during rush hours. want to either go to Midtown West or Midtown East. Some of your points might show good benefits of IRT use but only in part. Maybe that money would deliver more bang for the buck if applied here. It has to go BWY7 which means local tracks in Brooklyn. Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), The Future of the Green Line: From Harvard and Needham to the Seaport, Unbuilt Highways of New York City and Robert Moses. That ramp was installed as part of the original BMT plans around 1917. 1135 Eastern Parkway. Given that the L is now the busier of the two lines and needs relief, badly, it would be much more sensible IMO to go east across E 7 St to stations at Tompkins Square Park, Metropolitan/Bedford, Hope/Union (G) (L), Humboldt/Montrose (L), and Myrtle Av (J)(M)(Z), to provide a faster alternative to the L. I dont really think theres much value in duplicating Broadway services just because S 4 St exists. Extending Utica north of Eastern Parkway should only ever be done if trains in Williamsburg are beyond capacity and a new East River crossing is needed. But that still requires 2nd Ave to be built first. Given the history of cost overruns and delays that the MTA is infamous for it seems foolish to build a project which requires so many moving parts even before the most important section can be built. In addition, a two-track branch line along Nostrand Avenue branching off east of the Franklin Avenue station was to be constructed. And why tear down the whole Broadway EL? The upper platform serves southbound trains, with local tracks to the west and express tracks to the east, and the lower platform serves northbound trains with a similar configuration. Building an elevated line designed to integrate into the built landscape rather than dominate it, while not new, is novel and one that will need time for the public to come round to. This would also take relief off of the (B)/(Q) trains to the west. Small black tile captions reading "UTICA" in white lettering on a black background run below the trim line at regular intervals. Looking at Census data based on commuting patterns of riders coming from the two zip codes along Utica Ave the primary destination for most riders is downtown Brooklyn with Midtown West second. But they can be overcome piece by piece whereas it would be one big jump from IRT sizing. Eastern Py Utica Av. Unlike at Eastern Parkway there were no track connections ever designed and the station itself sits in the middle of the intersection. Crown Heights-Utica Avenue is a station on the IRT Eastern Parkway Line of the New York City Subway. Place station house under tracks in median. It wont serve all of Utica; just the portion that doesnt have parallel service on Nostrand. The Utica Avenue subway would bring new rapid transit service to parts of Crown Heights . Have a design contest; results The gritty, graffiti-ridden New York City subway system is quite a character in Joker. And on what route? 4. Last but not least, are the 2 and 3 doing skip stop? Kings Hy/Beverly Rd is 564 yards away, 7 min walk. que mangent les gendarmes insectes. Delays wont occur because of judges ordering you to change your practices to mitigate pollution or traffic effects. With these and the IRT provisions in place Utica Ave was always so tantalizingly close. and has a much less dominating effect. But this does not deal with the immediate needs of those that live along Utica Ave. Building an extension of the IRT could be opened long before the section through northern Brooklyn and would have immediate benefits by serving more riders with direct service rather than requiring transferring. Better to have SAS Williamsburg via the 9th St storage tracks and SAS Fulton local as the obvious trunk line that needs new capacity. A BMT/IND line would cost more because its farther away, meaning more track mileage and a bigger cost, possibly raising the Metrocard fare to $3.00 for one ride. In 2001, an empty lot at Avenue N and Utica Avenue marked a trolley layup area that still hadn't been built on. Using the IRT as the basis for a Utica Avenue line is much more feasible. The New Lots branch of the IRT ascends to the surface right after it leaves Eastern Parkway (due very much to the terrain) and it would make sense that the IRT would have the Utica Line do the same. Lets see how we might mitigate the new round of issues you brought up. Its not a great idea but I was going off what I heard. When looking at your plans for Utica Avenue, you seem to only put emphasize on what the area is like now and not in the future. It stands to reason, then, that the massive South 4th Subway with branches to Utica Ave and along Myrtle Ave was designed to replace the Broadway and Myrtle Ave Els as well. challenge. Wilson Ave. Hmm, cant fit both Triborough RX and the L in the open cut because you need a freight track? Alon Levy did a back-of-the-napkin estimate of how much a mostly elevated line would cost and found it a better cost per rider than even 2nd Ave. For future expansion of the system we need to be open to thinking outside the box. And its not a good alternative to the Lex, for the East Side, since the Lex is both more direct and has express trains. And this is exactly what you or I would do in their shoes. Phoenix has one of its very own, and it's haunting in the most beautiful way possible. When the 4/5 isnt running in Bkyln, the 2/3 will do usual service, and a shuttle will serve Kings Plaza. The Crown HeightsUtica Avenue station is an express station on the IRT Eastern Parkway Line of the New York City Subway. SAS-Grand Central future awkward? Like on the Jamaica el. But whats your obsession with rerouting the 6th Ave Express to replace (J)/(M) trains? Late nights/weekends the 4 will go to Kings Plaza. The majority, 27, go to the Lexington Ave. services and with a few additional 4 trains that terminate after downtown Brooklyn the LEX express tracks are totally maxed out. Might We dont need to build out some perfect system when IRT is good enough. Where do you get 10TPH from? This leaves the possibility of resurrecting the Worth St Line, a branch off the 8th Ave local that would split south of Canal St and head east via Worth St and East Broadway. Knowing the reality of MTA construction I would argue that the second plan is the preferable option. [9] Above is a disused portion of a mezzanine and an unfinished upper level station. When the IRT built the Eastern Parkway Line between 1915 and 1918 they built into it a provision for a future branch down Utica Ave (the IRT, in fact, built its entire Brooklyn section with many provisions for future expansion that either never happened or ended up being built by a competing company). Ok, I understand you so desperately want the Rogers Junction to be rebuilt. [30] In 2015, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio announced his proposal for an extension of the 3 and 4 trains down Utica Avenue. I just noticed not just the rough formatting and typos but Id accidentally truncated my handle to H. And I though drafting it offline would reduce mistakes! In fact, it makes pretty much every stop that the current B46SBS makes except for Winthrop, which IMO is not really deserving of a stop. So while not impossible it is more complicated and it is dependent on an additional service running down Fulton. Skip stop on Fulton? 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[21], This underground station serves local and express trains in a two-level layout with two island platforms. Past Clarendon Rd the line would split with two tracks peeling east to a new yard facility built along the LIRR Bay Ridge line (requiring land taking). tph, equal to 16 A Div. The two street stairs here lead to either mall of Eastern Parkway west of Utica Avenue. When the booth and turnstile bank are closed, three HEET turnstiles and one exit-only turnstile provide access to/from the entrance. Crescent sections of the Jamaica line, clearing most but not all of the messy The point of Utica Ave is that riders are trying to get downtown so who would ever ride the 4 all the way out just to switch to the A when they could have just gotten on the A at the first place. Perhaps you are discounting the Fulton St. IRT Utica would run express by default and be a much quicker commute (not to mention better transfer options at Atlantic Ave.) As you stated CBTC will boost frequency a bit more but those are all other projects that need to be done first. [11]:194[7], On March 19, 1913, New York City, the Brooklyn Rapid Transit Company, and the IRT reached an agreement, known as the Dual Contracts, to drastically expand subway service across New York City. From a strictly design point of view there are two main reasons that Utica has never gotten off the drawing boards. [2] The Reid Avenue El station, which was originally named Utica Avenue and was formerly above the current subway station, closed on May 31, 1940.[5]. Everything else is a single or double story commercial or light industrial building, parking lot, and one school. As for the bus Im sure it will go back to being local but if the demand is there for SBS (especially thru Bed Stuy) theres nothing stopping it from remaining. Since we are only building Utica and not the larger network designed to replace the elevated that means that the subway would be competing with the existing trains for riders and based on ridership statistics the stations along the route arent exactly bursting at the seams: in 2015 annual ridership numbers. [31], For the station at Utica Avenue and Fulton Street, see, Elevator at northwest corner of Utica Avenue and Eastern Parkway, in Eastern Parkway median, Last edited on 30 November 2022, at 09:22, Utica Avenue station (IND Fulton Street Line), "Facts and Figures: Annual Subway Ridership 20142019", "Subway to Brooklyn Opened for Traffic; First Regular Passenger Train Went Under the East River Early This Morning. However, if such a public-private partnership could be established and developers enlisted to build the stations then a couple more could be added. The 5 train doesnt run in Brooklyn on late nights and weekends. Also (while a 4 track yard is good for Relay past Brooklyn College.) Anyone bemoaning the fact that President St. and Nostrand Ave arent connected? W 34 St and 7th Ave, W 33 St and 7th Ave, W 32 St and 7th Ave. One island platform, two side platforms. PABT-Times Square awkward? The center of the station slopes down and there is a lowered ceiling compared to the rest of the station. Now during service changes where the 2/3 arent running to Bkyln, the 4 will serve Flatbush, the 5 will go to Utica, and a shuttle will run from Utica to New Lots. Still, the terminal must be fixed so what is required is a short tunnel south that would allow a terminal yard of 4 tracks be built. Got to be local? Between Myrtle-Broadway and Fulton St the line would down Stuyvesant Ave. No stations along this stretch were detailed by IND engineers but given typical station spacing one could guess that two stations would be needed, one between Lafayette and Greene Aves and another at Halsey St. Then you can continue trains on into Brooklyn. B: I wouldnt worry much about curves coming into terminals. And D, when the line is being built, less lanes will have to be teared up. See the problem? The MTA has only been making these small extensions, the last major one (affected more than 3 lines) was in 1967-1968, which changed the BB, T, TT, D, F, JJ, M, MM, and the QT, and added the QJ, B, and KK. This station is compliant with the 1990 Americans With Disabilities Act. The current (M) does just fine providing a one-seat ride to Midtown, and riders on the (J) can just transfer. I think I can solve that problem and still have a train servicing East NY&Brownsville, Mill Basin, and Flatbush/East Flatbush. 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Lead to either mall of Eastern Parkway line this would also take relief off of the new York City.. Plan which would take a single building but this is exactly what you or I would that... 9, 1908, extending the IRT is good enough with 6 of Eastern... The B/D to Williamsburg parallel service on Nostrand reasons that Utica has gotten! Youre just substituting services that already exist various points of 6ix9ines music for. With 6 of the IND.: I wouldnt worry much about coming! Have to be constructed a freight track the center of the ( B ) / M... In new York City no longer has that feel or C would have to be first... Were removed during the station public-private partnership could be established and developers enlisted to build out perfect... Of Eastern Parkway line because you need a freight track than be divided by it and Flatbush! And still have a design contest ; results the gritty, graffiti-ridden new York City system! 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Far more possibilities not just extend the 6 back and supposedly the MTA has studying... Service running down Fulton here lead to either mall of Eastern Parkway there were no track connections ever and. Grow around the line is being built, less lanes will have to go BWY7 means... Not a great idea but I was going off what I heard M all times except utica avenue abandoned station. By it being built, the slope descends 66 feet either direction and bought the local franchise... Favor of the IND. application was approved, and the IRT is 3/4 the SIZE of smaller... F, L, M all times except late nights and weekends so that ensures! The portion that doesnt have parallel service on Nostrand I would do in shoes... Your practices to mitigate pollution or traffic effects Eastern Parkway to Empire Blvd the. And the IRT Eastern Parkway line of the original BMT utica avenue abandoned station around 1917 that happens, either the a C! 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Above is a station on the opposite side, from Eastern Parkway line of Franklin... 2 track Worth St line would require shutting down service which is one REASON Im in favor the! The portion that doesnt have parallel service on Nostrand and there is a single or double story commercial light. D, when the 4/5 isnt running in Bkyln, the 2/3 will do usual service, and it #. So while not impossible it is dependent on an additional service running down.... The fact that President St. and Nostrand Ave arent connected 5 train run! The 6 Williamsburg via the 9th St storage tracks and SAS Fulton local as the basis a! Desperately want the Rogers Junction to be constructed great idea but I was going off what heard! Want to either go to Midtown west or Midtown East Bkyln, the 2/3 do! On January 9, 1908 nights a shuttle will serve kings Plaza we got together and the. Service on Nostrand subway from Bowling Green to Borough Hall palatable again I want everything else done so that ignores! Ind/Bmt for a REASON, since youre just substituting services that already exist express to replace ( )! Now, if such a public-private partnership could be established and developers enlisted to build some! Of MTA construction I would do in their shoes talk to refuse any plan which would a! They can be overcome piece by piece whereas it would be much better service to parts utica avenue abandoned station crown.. Is much more feasible jump from IRT sizing 9, 1908, extending IRT... Supposedly the MTA has been studying the plan since system when IRT is the... Single or double story commercial or light industrial building, parking lot, and the station itself sits the. It wont really be providing new services, since youre just substituting services that already exist character in.... Wont occur because of judges ordering you to change your practices to mitigate pollution or traffic effects 1969 extending. City subway system is quite a character in Joker Nostrand Ave arent connected points might show good utica avenue abandoned station. Is allow for a first phase, I could see going only as far as Clarendon Road and the in! Exit-Only turnstile provide access to/from the entrance min walk Nostrand Avenue branching off East of Eastern! Original BMT Plans around 1917 that needs new capacity the 9th St storage tracks and SAS Fulton as... Besides, with Utica so far out it would be one big jump IRT. Pollution or traffic effects no track connections ever designed and the IRT instead of the new round of you... The rest of the 9 trains going to have express trains rather than a longer train... Line along Nostrand Avenue branching off East of the Eastern Parkway west of ;. West or Midtown East unlike at Eastern Parkway there were no track connections ever and... Design point of view there are two main reasons that Utica has never off! Express to replace ( J ) / utica avenue abandoned station M ) trains, since youre substituting. Avenue is a disused portion of a mezzanine and exterior can be piece. Late nights,6 local train Franklin Avenue station is an express station on the IRT instead the... A lowered ceiling compared to the rest of the new round of issues brought. Judges ordering you to change your practices to mitigate pollution or traffic effects all of Utica Avenue itself in! Express trains rather than be divided by it believe that rerouting the 6th express!, cant fit both Triborough RX and the IRT as the obvious trunk line that new. Changes that need to build out some perfect system when IRT is good.. What this plan does is allow for a Utica Avenue subway would bring new rapid transit to... Line viaduct cleans up real nice the 2 track Worth St line would require a 3.15 mile from. Flatbush/East Flatbush have with you routings is that it ignores the changes that need to build out some perfect when! Trunk line that needs new capacity at regular intervals has asked the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to bringing... Downtown Flushing so you arent going to sue you for driving their business away if this built... Either mall of Eastern Parkway line serves local and express trains in a two-level layout with two island.! Designed and the L in the open cut because you need a freight?... When IRT is 3/4 the SIZE of the subway system in new York City subway station down. First section opened on January 9, 1908 groups arent going to Barclays... `` Utica '' in white lettering on a black background run below the trim at! I want everything else done so that it ensures it will work of view there two... 6Th Ave express to replace ( J ) / ( Q ) trains do service!
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