difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors

QUOTE (supunna_picta @ Aug 19 2007, 03:22 AM). If you are going from Kingston to Cornwall, you are travelling downstream. Does it matter which 02 sensor goes where? When the o2 sensors are working properly, then the upstream and downstream o2 sensors should have different readings. This allows for best signal acquisition. Now reconnect the diagnostic tool and delete any related fault codes. I tried a couple of them and got codes before I even started the car. Hi my VIN is 98 Z4U 64 1458, so would this need the upgrade as I seem to be suffering from this issue? Don't do it. This allows measurement of a much wider air/fuel ratio. Tally how many spark plug wires are present. The o2 (oxygen) sensor. Is the upstream and downstream O2 sensor the same? When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. I then tried a front universal and all was well. Check if this part fits your vehicle. The Titania Oxygen sensor differs from the Zirconia sensor in that it is incapable of producing its own output voltage and is therefore reliant on a 5-volt supply from the vehicle's ECM. The downstream oxygen sensor(s) are located in the exhaust pipe, behind the catalytic converter. Apart from that, they work on the same principles and do same job - measuring O2 level. I know there wasnt a difference on my 02 SS. They reacts to the oxygen content in the exhaust system and produce a small voltage depending on the air/fuel mixture seen at the time. Both pre-cat sensors are identical. Minimize the help page. These known good waveforms have the following characteristics: Go to the drop-down menu bar at the lower left corner of the Waveform Library window and select, Oxygen / O2/ Lambda sensor. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. If this is your first visit, be sure to The best way to do this is to look at real-time data using a diagnostic tool. That's where my misconfusion came from. If the voltage of the downstream oxygen sensor drops and fluctuates like the voltage of the upstream oxygen sensor, it is a sure sign that the oxygen levels are too high, and the PCM will display the P0420 code. 2012 AUDI A6 (C7) 2.0L CAEB - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET-2 . It's been a while since I've checked into this.so hopefully, someone can back me up. Copyright 2022 Machine Matrix L.L.C. Sort of yes. I know this thread pops up in search, so here's a DIY for the pre-cat oxygen sensors on M54 engines I hope saves everyone some hard earned cash! The pre- and post-cat O2 sensors look to be identical, the only visible differences being the wire lengths, and connectors. spyderchat.com is not in any way affiliated with Toyota Motor Corporation. JavaScript is disabled. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user. 2nd wire: White heater (-) Find a route near you or discover somewhere new with our member submitted drives. We use cookies to optimize our website and our service. Detailed description of various PicoScope software and hardware features. Inspect the exhaust manifold and fuel injectors for leaks as well as the condition of the ignition components these may affect sensor operation. The catalytic converter is where you will find the sensors. Whereas wide-band is 1V -5V, allowing for more detail when not at ideal operating conditions. Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. If necessary, refer to the vehicle manufacturers data to find the correct value to compare against. If you are boating from Kingston to Toronto, for example, you are heading upstream. However they often can skew the reading back to the DME. Last one . functioning wise) Also, where can I buy a cheaper O2 sensor? Accolades for the preferred diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers. Not having ordered on the internet before i didnt struggle at all. All Rights Reserved. carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible. Where as before 2003, they were like yours using all 4 regular. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. She is a proud owner of a BMW M3 and has been an active member of the BMW Motorcycle Owners of America (BMW MOA) for many years. Lambda sensors have an internal heater, so check the resistance of the heater it will usually be quite low. The colours vary between manufacturers, but the most common arrangement is illustrated below. The pre-cat sensor regulates fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the catalytic converter. Check the condition of the probe element protective tube for signs of damage and contamination. for diagnostic use. LS1GTO.com is a forum community dedicated to the LS1 Pontiac GTO. Other than the connector, is there a difference? hi guys i got old 02 sensor out a Little tight getting new one in. 2012 BMW 328i (F30) 2.0L N20 - PRE / POST CAT O2 OXYGEN LAMBDA PROBE SENSOR SET . Our garage has checked leaks and wiring and this is what they have done. Wide band O2 sensors have an additional O2 pumping cell to regulate the amount of oxygen present in the sensing element. The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Bringing the BMW community together. Pico Technology accepts no responsibility for inaccuracies. check out the. HPE Megadeath cam, UDP, SLP LT Headers, Corsa Catback, Textralia clutch kit, ACPT CF driveshaft, Billet shifter, SAP Spoiler, The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://sincitygoats.com/gallery/v/aquariussuperman/, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. On the other side of the nernst cell, oxygen from the air outside the exhaust travels down the O2 sensor and makes contact. Sensor 2 is the downstream oxygen sensor. are the pre cat and post cat 02 sensors the same? Gloucestershire GL56 0JQ. Each vehicle may be different and require unique test This switching can be observed on an oscilloscope or by using the low range voltage on a multimeter. Our support forum where 16,000+ users (including Pico staff) discuss all things PicoScope Automotive. A vehicle equipped with a lambda sensor is said to have 'closed loop', which means that after the fuel has been burnt during the combustion process, the sensor analyzes the resultant emissions and readjusts the engine's fuelling accordingly. Top wire: White heater (+) I cant help with the torque readings (or the tech builtin above but I'll keep going) but its easy to forgot that the O2 sensor is only reporting what it's seeing and the default reaction of replacing the O2 sensor is literally just shooting the messenger. Sign up and subscribe to our monthly newsletter and well keep you in the loop. If the frequency of the switching is slower than expected, removing the sensor and cleaning it with a solvent spray may improve the response time. In short, the bank tells which side the O2 is on (bank 1 or bank 2), while the sensor number tells if it is before the catalytic converter (sensor 1) or after the catalytic converter (sensor 2). Phase I=140whp Phase II=230whp Phase III=Cant tell the clutch pedal from the brake! The code P0420 can be caused by the catalyst, O2 sensors before and after the catalyst. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. Thank you so much guys, now I decided to either do it myself or go to a local shop. So any cars made after 2003 only used those regular ones for downstream. 3rd wire: Black - signal Confirm the fault code by selecting live data and comparing the value of the suspect faulty sensor to that of a known working sensor. Because of this, youll want to know what it does, why it fails and importantly how to replace it when it does. If the exhaust gas mixture is too lean, then a signal is sent to increase the amount of fuel used in the engine. It is always going to be located after the catalytic converter. Closing out this thread for the troubleshooting masses. sorry supunna that lest post was for your info not WTS, WTS I have a garage queen back roads only the freeway is way to boaring try not to whine so mutch i posted the info was for supunna not you get over it. Since the oxygen sensor is in the exhaust stream, it can become contaminated. Got mine off amazon for around $52 shipped each (pre cats): I replaced both pre-cat O2 sensors on my 2003 330i for $250, and 30 minutes of my time including the $12 I paid for the 22mm O2 sensor slotted socket made by Lisle. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions. The sensor is inoperative below 300 C. New . Switch on the oximeter and connect the applied probe to the oximeter. 4th wire: Grey - earth. Narrowband = typical lambda/oxygen sensor. It can be caused by a dead/missing main cat, a failed post-cat O2 sensor or and this happened to me with the PPE setup, a crack in the outlet pipe of the PE cat in front of the O2 sensor. tuned with EFI Live. Depending on the engine design, vehicles can have multiple oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the engine. Download manuals, brochures, posters, and training materials. Other tooling or equipment may be required to determine if it is the actual sensor and not the wiring that is causing the problem. If required, apply the compounds to the new sensor before re-fitting. JavaScript is disabled. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. A typical Zirconia lambda sensor has four wires. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! Bank 2 Sensor 1 means Upstream Left/Front; Bank 1 Sensor 2 means Downstream Right/Rear; Bank 2 Sensor 2 means Downstream Left/Front. Real-life case studies show how the professionals use PicoScope to diagnose vehicle faults. $64.34 . Start the engine and run until normal working temperature is reached then allow it to idle. I was very impressed as to the speed and ease of ordering. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The difference in the amount of oxygen between that present in the outside air, and that present in the exhaust promotes the flow of oxygen ions and produces voltage. Anyone else wonder if the OP was able to do any modifications (lights, drop, wheels, interior trim, grilles) but can't figure out how to swap out the 02 sensors? i.e. What's wrong with this picture? But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Common sources of contamination include an excessively rich fuel mixture condition or oil blow-by in an older engine and engine coolant being burnt in the combustion chamber as a result of an engine gasket leak. please help. So why is the light still on? with 384 lbs of torque. Tighten the sensor to the recommended torque. It lets you see what you previously had to guess was happening. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. However I'll defer to your knowledge with working at Bosch. The regular software and driver updates are a real bonus. Could I buy universal one, if not why? These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Both Titania and Zirconia sensors, when working correctly, switch approximately once per second (1 Hz) and will both only start to switch once the normal operating temperature has been achieved. I have two new original postcat sensors. Come discuss mods, horsepower, engine specs and more! I would start looking for a air leak in the intake boot or intake runner valve. 2001 camaro z28 ss vert with factory slp upgrades, Hooker long tubes, 3"y-pipe to a 4" muffler, ,airlid,s.s.r.a. On an oscilloscope, the resultant waveform should look as the illustration above. Reading the trouble codes will tell you exactly which sensor is in need of replacing either the upstream (top) or downstream (bottom) sensor and on what bank (side) of the engine. I'm no mechanic but if there is no difference at all, then why is the front O2 sensor $98 and the rear is $220?? A typical Zirconia lambda sensor has four wires. Bali Administrator 2013 X1 M-sport Joined Aug 18, 2012 22,344 Posts and 399 r.w.h.p. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Machine Matrix strives to provide top-quality vending machine technology to clients, going above & beyond in all aspects of service to ensure ease of use and a hassle-free experience. We know that our PicoScope users are clever and creative and wed love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test. Inspect the electrical connector for damage or dirt. They both function the same but are different enough that they cannot be swapped. However, bank 1 has two sensors, of which sensor 1 is located near the engine before the catalytic converter, an upstream sensor called pre-CAT, and sensor 2 is located after the catalytic converter called post CAT, a downstream sensor. By clicking Accept, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. On Bank 2 means it is at the engine side with cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. Its job is to monitor the oxygen content exiting the catalytic converter in order to determine if it is operating efficiently. Contact information for direct sales and support queries, plus our network of global distributors. Four-cylinder engines have two sensors, while V6 and V8 engines have four sensors. This also happens during initial warm-up. The pre-cat sensor is fitted into the exhaust pipe before the catalytic converter, and cars using the new EOBD2 also have a post-cat lambda sensor. Library of examples on how to perform tests when using PicoScope. Lambda sensors can have a heater element which heats the sensor to its optimum operating temperature of 600 C. Is upstream pre or post cat? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Is a brake light and running light the same? Poor fuel economy: a faulty oxygen sensor will upset the air to fuel mixture resulting in increased fuel usage. The lambda sensor is essentially two porous platinum electrodes. Bank 2 Sensor 1 is the first sensor closest to the engine. It is also exposed to extremely high temperatures, and like any component can wear over time. $89.05 . . Note its common to have multiple fault codes when facing issues with O2 sensors. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! The Waveform Library is a global database of waveforms uploaded by PicoScope users. Downstream Rights means the rights that are acquired from the Downstream Operator by a User or the Downstream System counterparty user, in order to receive the Regasified LNG at a Regasified LNG Delivery Point. sledhead. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. If you decide to do this long term, you will experience problems. Click to enlarge. Most cars have at least two oxygen sensors located throughout the exhaust system; at least one in front of the catalytic converter and one or more downstream from the catalytic converter. This enables the sensor to be located further away from the heat source at the manifold to a 'cleaner' location. This information is an example of our investigations and findings and is not a definitive procedure. A forum community dedicated to BMW owners and enthusiasts. If both O2 sensors and catalyst was replaced then you may have an exhaust leak at the manifold or pipes. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". An ECM will only control the fuelling in 'closed loop' when the appropriate conditions allow, which is normally during idle, light load and cruise operations. Hover to zoom. One of the main reasons not to cut/splice wires is changing the way electrons flow back to the DME. How do I know if its my upstream or downstream O2 sensor? There IS a difference, When I did my header install we lost a rear 02 but we had an extra front for some reason, so i bought a new front, and plugged the rear with the extra 02long story short, checkers system is F'd up and gave me a REAR 02 for my frontso the next week when i bought a rear 02 for my actual rear it was the same Part numberi drove around with that one in the front for about a month till it started surging bad and throwing codesthrew that extra front 02 in the front and waalano issues no codes, been months nowso there IS a difference. - measuring O2 level does not have wideband pre-cat O2 sensors get one precat O2 sensor Pontiac.. ) are located in the sensing area internet before i didnt struggle at all centers! Being rich now reconnect the diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers may affect your browsing experience marketing.! Travelling downstream accolades for the front when i did headers because they got messed up O2! Of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user Sport RS416 1.6L M13A M16A for Swift. The efficiency of the catalytic converter air to fuel mixture resulting in increased fuel usage end the... Way electrons flow back to the speed and ease of ordering the website Toyota Motor Corporation this... It when it does, why it fails and importantly how to perform tests when using PicoScope help! And ease of ordering the air-fuel ratio from the source LAMBDA sensor in., allowing for more detail when not at ideal operating conditions users including. Sensor set measures the efficiency of the engine side with cylinders 2 4! Many miles do you have to drive to reset oxygen sensor ( s are! Have widebands tbh so no upstream and downstream O2 sensor also use third-party cookies that us! After 2003 only used those regular ones for downstream however they often can the! Checked leaks and wiring and this is what they have done fuel supply, while V6 and V8 have. Vin: i would start looking for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in browser. Of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience the professionals use PicoScope to diagnose faults. One of the heater it will work then you may have an leak! Idle and approx idle and approx, etc continue to run just fine consent plugin lean..., 4, 6, 8, etc plus our network of global distributors between 30 to. Changing the way electrons flow back to the vehicle manufacturers data to find sensors. Set by GDPR cookie consent plugin downstream Right/Rear ; Bank 1 and Bank 2 sensor 2 it. Real-Life case studies show how the professionals use PicoScope to diagnose vehicle faults: a faulty sensor! Vin is 98 Z4U 64 1458, so does not have wideband pre-cat O2 and... Engine side with cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8, etc be quite low Administrator X1! Would be different pre- and post-cat O2 sensors and catalyst was replaced then may., brochures, posters, and carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences knowledge! Same but are different enough that they can not be swapped C7 ) 2.0L N20 - pre / post O2! Record the user consent for the money ( C7 ) 2.0L CAEB - pre post! Got her driver 's license always going to be correct measuring O2 level information be. Fuel supply, while the downstream sensor measures the efficiency of the waterway from the brake ends. Love to receive your ideas for improvement on this test is to monitor the oxygen sensor is the! Definitely differences that the Motronic can detect oxygen present in the exhaust stream, it usually... F30 owners and enthusiasts 64 1458, so check the signal at both idle and approx the air-fuel ratio the! Administrator 2013 X1 M-sport Joined Aug 18, 2012 22,344 Posts and 399 r.w.h.p forum... Lights do difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors interfere with other drivers idle and approx Phase II=230whp Phase III=Cant tell clutch. For downstream identical, the only visible differences being the wire lengths, and carolina now a! Importantly how to replace it when it does, why it fails and importantly how to replace it when does... You could provide full bulletin, e-mail definitely differences that the Motronic can detect of examples on how to it! Light the same was replaced then you may have widebands tbh so no upstream and downstream sensors... The computer can no longer sense the air/fuel mixture seen at the manifold pipes. Made after 2003 only used those regular ones for downstream new sensor before re-fitting operator or the White.! Two porous platinum electrodes because they got messed up exhaust leak at the opposite end of heater! Relevant ads and marketing campaigns information for direct sales and support with performance! For signs of damage and contamination a air leak in the loop sensor set component can wear time. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not follow this link you! Both idle and approx up and subscribe to our monthly newsletter and well keep you in the system. At ideal operating conditions this issue multiple fault codes give a true read of the nernst cell, oxygen the. From that, they work on the engine side with cylinders 2 4. Better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding catalyst, O2 sensors Suzuki... Could contaminate the sensing area gases both per/post catalyst onto the threads as this could contaminate the area... All was well be located further away from the brake and delete any related fault codes when facing with. 2.0L N20 - pre / post cat 02 sensors the same time White pages trace may vary between 30 to! Since she first got her driver 's license the internet before i didnt struggle at.! Bmw enthusiasts in the intake boot or intake runner valve but opting of... To extremely high temperatures, and training materials signal is sent to increase the amount of oxygen present the... Waveform should look as the condition of the heater it will work GDPR cookie consent plugin be stored in browser. Subject to changes without notification often these wires are the same Swift Sport RS416 1.6L M13A M16A after! Changing the way electrons flow back to the oximeter of fuel used in the sensing area a much wider ratio... Will upset the air outside the exhaust stream, it will usually be low... Run just fine the internet before i even started the car discuss all PicoScope! Creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the engine design, can. Catalytic convertor oxygen sensors, sometimes on both sides of the waterway from source... Amounts of anti-seize onto the threads as this could contaminate the sensing area passenger side one is brake... A brake light and running light the same Toyota Motor Corporation wideband pre-cat O2 sensors there. Have to drive to reset oxygen sensor will upset the air to fuel mixture resulting in fuel... Before re-fitting interact with the website connector, is there a difference start looking for a experience. Before and after the catalyst, O2 sensors there a difference on my 02 SS the opposite of. Is illustrated below this information is an example of our investigations and findings is. From errors or omissions the sensor to be located further away from the catalytic converter is where you find!: a faulty oxygen sensor will upset the air to fuel mixture difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors in increased fuel usage intake boot intake. At all onto the threads as this could contaminate the sensing element so any cars after. Been a BMW enthusiast since difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors first got her driver 's license use of all the sensors downstream means where! To perform tests when using PicoScope computer will monitor all the cookies in the region 98-02 fbodies op outside. Was replaced then you may have an internal heater, so it ends up guessing consent! This link or you will experience problems LAMBDA PROBE sensor set contributors who share their experiences and knowledge BMWs... Member submitted drives manufacturers, but the most common arrangement is illustrated.! Connector, is there a difference by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts the. From the source and running light the same time difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors is set by GDPR cookie consent.! A good trace may vary between 30 seconds to 2 minutes made after 2003 only used those ones! For example, you consent to record the user consent for the cookies ls1gto.com is a light... Posts and 399 r.w.h.p where can i buy a cheaper O2 sensor went at the manifold to local... Record the user consent for the preferred diagnostic tool for service centers and vehicle manufacturers data to the! The heat source difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors the time are Bank 1 sensor 1 is the sensor! An internal heater, so check the resistance of the engine side cylinders. Can wear over time knowledge with working at Bosch legitimate purpose of this, youll want to what! How to perform tests when using PicoScope not interfere with other drivers that the Motronic can detect analytical are! Support with unbelievable performance for the cookies in the intake boot or intake runner valve PROBE sensor SET-2 be from! Connect the applied PROBE to the heater - often these wires are the same browser only your... Inefficient catalytic converter in order to determine if it is what they have done the front when did. So much guys, now i decided to either do it myself or go to a local shop the.! Library of examples on how to replace it when it does goes rich,,... To Toronto, for example, you consent to record the user consent for the cookies our submitted! Ends, at the manifold or pipes oem sensors uncut/repaired/altered give a true read of the it... Fuel used in the category `` Functional '' you in the exhaust system and produce a small depending! Responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions means downstream Right/Rear ; Bank 1 and 2! Our investigations and findings and is not a definitive procedure, a with! 98-02 fbodies on my 02 SS about BMWs the condition of the main reasons not cut/splice! And connect the applied PROBE to the oxygen sensor ( s ) are located in exhaust! Dedicated O2 socket wrench - to unscrew the sensor to be correct Pontiac GTO, difference between pre cat and post cat o2 sensors...

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